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 Post subject: DriveRack PA: how useful with only two passive speakers?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:57 pm
Posts: 4
Location: North Fulton, GA
hi --

i'm mulling (agonizing maybe) over whether i should get a driverack PA for my system. can y'all help? i do not have subs and do not plan to get them. i am just running a DJ system basically with a laptop and itunes and just do it for fun as a sort of volunteer DJ for neighborhood events etc., indoors and outdoors. (we have a very large neighborhood).

Why do this just for fun? Some people are into widescreen TVs as a hobby/addiction. I could care less about pretty pictures. For me it's audio. Maybe y'all can relate?

So, i have a carver professional PM700 amp (350w/channel 4ohms), a laptop with itunes, and a pair of yamaha s115v 15\" club speakers.

i also have an alesis RS300 (150w/channel 4ohms) and a pair of EV SX-80 8\" speakers.

i have no EQ, other than the 3 bands on the little mixer.

the EV's sound pretty good at medium volume. the yamaha's sound \"OK\" loud, but terrible at medium volume levels. So at this point i am not yet talking about making the room sound good -- i first need for the system to sounds good on its own.

So, will the Driverack PA fix this, or am i just as well off with an old fashioned 31 band GEQ? Do i need to have a EQ setting for \"loud volume\" and an EQ setting for \"medium volume\" ?

I ask because i see much of the feature set in the DRPA is around the crossovers and multiple speakers, but i've only got a pair, and am reading comments here that indicate that the RTA is not a panacea. --- is the DRPA worth it if you are not using the crossover or should i just get a good GEQ?

also: is it true that the only reason you need to select a specific speaker brand is for the crossovers? i.e. if you are using more than one pair of speakers?

- scott


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 4821
Location: Northern Minnesota
Hi Scott,

Hey if your second paragraph is any indication you should get the DRPA for your love of audio alone... so many possibilities... A GEQ is really a lousy tool for EQing a speaker system. I liken it to carpet bombing when a sniper rifle would accomplish the goal. As you have noted speakers DO sound different at different volumes. So yes it makes sense to have different EQ settings for different volumes. You have also got 25 storage locations for different setups! The driverack can handle these problems with ease. The DRPA has 3 bands of PEQ for the hi output, and 2 each for the mid and lo outs. Yes there are features you probably won't use but hey, just think if you do get big enough to have subs and all...I started out doing high school events and now look what I'm doing... :shock: helping people for FREE on this site... :lol:

For a serious bang for the buck upgrade the 260 has 4 bands of PEQ per output and you can substitute dual 9 band PEQ's for the GEQ at the front end.Plus oodles of delay and speaker tuning tools..

Be careful of using two dissimilar speakers to cover the same coverage area. Some nasty comb filtering and cancellations can occur that will affect coverage.

The crossover also affords the ability to set a band pass filter that establishes a set of frequency limits for a given speaker.

I know you'll love playing with the darn thing so do yourself a favor and jump on board and join the digital age.

Gadget

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 Post subject: Re: DriveRack PA: how useful with only two passive speakers?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:05 pm
Posts: 542
Location: Deaf Valley, USA
Scott Long wrote:
Why do this just for fun? Some people are into widescreen TVs as a hobby/addiction. I could care less about pretty pictures. For me it's audio. Maybe y'all can relate?

I can certainly relate!... :D

Scott Long wrote:
So, i have a carver professional PM700 amp (350w/channel 4ohms), a laptop with itunes, and a pair of yamaha s115v 15" club speakers.

i also have an alesis RS300 (150w/channel 4ohms) and a pair of EV SX-80 8" speakers.

Scott,...sooo you have two amps and two pairs of speakers?... Do you ever use both amps and both pairs at the same time?... If not,...do you intend to?...

Scott Long wrote:
the EV's sound pretty good at medium volume. the yamaha's sound "OK" loud, but terrible at medium volume levels. So at this point i am not yet talking about making the room sound good -- i first need for the system to sounds good on its own.

So, will the Driverack PA fix this, or am i just as well off with an old fashioned 31 band GEQ? Do i need to have a EQ setting for "loud volume" and an EQ setting for "medium volume" ?

Yes,...the DriveRack could be setup to fix this and you could have different programs stored for different scenarios... An analog GEQ would definately be cheaper and you would have to set it differently for each system... The question is: do you plan on expanding you hobby?... If so,...and money is not a major concern I would recommend the DR260... It would certainly be overkill today...but tomorrow?

Scott Long wrote:
I ask because i see much of the feature set in the DRPA is around the crossovers and multiple speakers, but i've only got a pair, and am reading comments here that indicate that the RTA is not a panacea. --- is the DRPA worth it if you are not using the crossover or should i just get a good GEQ?

also: is it true that the only reason you need to select a specific speaker brand is for the crossovers? i.e. if you are using more than one pair of speakers?

- scott

The built-in speaker selection allows for the DriveRack to establish starting points for your crossovers, etc... This usually gets fine tuned anyways so it's really not that important... It doesn't matter if the speakers you own are included in the selection or not...

Kev

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:11 pm
Posts: 3132
Hi Scott, and welcome.
1st check the 260 for features and price, then see if you can swing it. If you can go that route because it can be controlled for the laptop. The EQ in the DRPA and the 260 (without the GUI) is cumbersome and slower to adjust.

Now, having said that... Even though you wont be \"using\" the x-over in the Driverack (insert model here), you will in fact be \"using\" the x-ver to set up High Pass Filters (Lo Cut) to save amp power and protect speakers from low frequency damage. You can use the High outputs (with their own filter and PEQ tailorings) for 1 set of speakers and the Mid outputs (ditto) for the other set. Likewise for the Low outputs if neaded. Add limiting on each to protect the speakers from over powering and clipping.
You can download the Driveware GUI and play with it on the computer and see how easy the 260 is to operate compared to the DRPA.
I have both. Both are great and will serve you well. But, even though you don't know it, you want the 260.

More than likely the sound shift quality that you are seeing (hearing) is that those band frequencies area are bad all the time. They just are more noticable will the volume changes. Once you tune the speakers to a flat state at the higher volumes, they should sound good at the lower volumes. Unless of coarse the passive crossover has a failing component that is wattage sensitive. *Results may vary.*

Speaker selection in your application means nothing. So you would select \"Custom\" for your speakers.

Re-reading that the EV's have 8\", you REALLY need filters for those.

Anyway. Hope this helps.

DRA

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FOH:
A&H MixWiz3 16:2
DriveRack 260
QSC PLX3102 (2) - Yorkville Elite E12 (4)
QSC PLX3602 - Yorkville UCS1 (2)

Monitors:
Driverack PA (2)
Yorkville NX25P (2)

DJ rack:
Q-SpandII
Driverack PA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 4821
Location: Northern Minnesota
Hello... hello.. hello..hel...Is there an echo in here :lol:

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There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with facts

I'm not an everlasting fountain of information but perhaps much more an unstoppable leak

2, BLOWN Galaxy Hotspots, with MCM audio select replacement drivers!


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 Post subject: thanks
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:57 pm
Posts: 4
Location: North Fulton, GA
hi all -- thanks so much for all the info. i'd really like to get the 260, but i'm barely able to rationalize the PA from a hobby standpoint, so if it's anything it'll be the PA, and yes i know as soon as i get it i'll want the 260...

Kev, I don't think i'd ever use the SX-80s and the SV115's at the same time. Right now i just use whichever sounds better at the target volume level.

Gadget said \"A GEQ is really a lousy tool for EQing a speaker system\" (because you can't target the frequencies as precisely as with a PEQ). Makes sense, but then i thought the auto-EQ uses GEQ at least in the PA. If correct, is auto-EQ or even manual GEQ in the DRPA of value? (i have seen the suggestions to auto-EQ, but then only keep the generated midrange settings and manually tweak the high and low end)

Or, is the 260's PEQ-based auto-eq the only one that really does the job?

In didn't think about using the crossovers even on a set of full range speakers as low-cut to protect them -- thanks for that point Dra.

Not that i can justify the 260... but i am looking to justify at least the PA (plus a RTA mic), y'all are definitely helping :wink: Thanks!
- scott


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:11 pm
Posts: 3132
The DRPA w/ RTA mic will help you get your speakers (in open space / outdoors, for example) flat so that they reproduce what is being sent to them. Transfer the Auto (GEQ) EQ results and transfer (guessimate) the info to the PEQ's. Then re-Auto EQ. Keep tweeking and Auto EQing until they're as flat as you can get them using different \"Q\"s, etc. Then flatten the GEQ for a fresh baseline for \"room\" taming.

Shop around for the best price on a DRPA. Some places are much cheaper than others, especially the \"Call for best price\" places.
Keep in touch and remember there is a learning curve, so don't get discouraged.

DRA

_________________
It's all fun and games... til someone looses an eye.


FOH:
A&H MixWiz3 16:2
DriveRack 260
QSC PLX3102 (2) - Yorkville Elite E12 (4)
QSC PLX3602 - Yorkville UCS1 (2)

Monitors:
Driverack PA (2)
Yorkville NX25P (2)

DJ rack:
Q-SpandII
Driverack PA


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 4821
Location: Northern Minnesota
Me again.. Like a bad penny I guess...

The 260's auto EQ uses the GEQ as well, you still have to transfer the info gleeneed from each pass to the PEQ's. The 260 has 24 PEQ's, 4 per band.
The 9 band PEQ could be used for the transfer of the auto EQ data as well, but multiple passes to get as flat a response as possible is still easiest with the post xover PEQ's. I had pretty good success in my new room, which is lovely, using the mic on the ceiling, in PZM fashion, and only ended up with 1 (1khz) maxed out band...I intentionally attenuated the sub amps by about 6db to avoid the bass being cut drastically and it worked perfectly, no cut or boost in the 31.5 40,50, or very much in the 63 hz bands, although the mic was probably NOT sensing those frequencies, and the Driverack can \"Ignore\" up to 4 (not exactly sure here) bands of frequencies if it does not sense any signal as in sub harmonic and ultra high frequencies.

gadget

_________________
There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with facts

I'm not an everlasting fountain of information but perhaps much more an unstoppable leak

2, BLOWN Galaxy Hotspots, with MCM audio select replacement drivers!


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